The Submission Archive: February 2022


  • Almost 500 members - the message is growing fast!

  • Important find: Rashad claims “God charged me with announcing the correct way for uttering Shahada, observing Salat & Zakat, Fasting, and Hajj”

  • Reflecting back on Ahmed Deedat - his sudden rejection of Code 19

  • More evidence confirming the God-alone Shahada!

  • True history of Quranism & the blatant plagiarism of Rashad's arguments

  • Regarding verse 2:187 - fast until 'sunset' or 'night'?

  • Traditionalists argue for stoning - Quran proves them wrong

  • Heated debate over circumcision - is it an approved practice?

  • New QuranTalk Podcast Episodes: Simple Miraculous Blessings, Judging Sincerity, The Original Con Artist, Imitation Versus Reality, Power and Responsibility


1 February: In the 1988 June Submitters Perspective, we find the following statement which should clear confusions regarding Rashad’s role as the messenger:

1988 June Submitters Perspective

Bearing this in mind, QuranTalk’s article, ‘The Ark For Our Generation’ comes into mind for those who insist in “abrogating” the practices as delivered:

God guaranteed Noah and those who joined Noah on this ark that they will survive the coming flood. No other ark or group of people had that guarantee. Does this mean that Noah’s ark couldn’t have been improved? That Noah’s ark was the best vessel that man will ever create? No, but that for the sake of the people at that time and place who received these warnings no other vessel could provide the assurances that God was guaranteeing for Noah and the believers who joined him on his ark…”

Every messenger comes for their time and place. And consistently every community that receives their messenger criticizes them for certain aspects of their message. Their egos convince them that they know better and that their messenger was wrong in some regard or another. This has always been God’s system that when a messenger comes the vast majority will disbelieve in them, and of the ones who claim to believe we see that only a small subset truly accept all that he is commanding them.”


4 February: QuranicLabs posts video of Ahmed Deedat’s lecture promoting Code 19 and his book, ‘Ultimate Miracle of the Quran’ - noting the blatant ‘hypocrisy’ of suddenly rejecting as the associated message it proves becomes ‘too controversial’:

qlabs: Ahmed Deedat was inspired by Dr. Rashad Khalifa's research to publish a book on the miracle (Ultimate Miracle of the Quran). He gave various lectures and speeches promoting this fascinating discovery. Oddly, he denounced all this work later on. This sudden, out-of-nowhere rejection was linked to the emerging message that the miracle was associated with, such as the fulfillment of certain prophecies (3:81, 74:1-37...) and purification of the religion (see Introduction, and Appendix 33).

Of course, God does not send miracles without a profound message attached to it. Unfortunately, Deedat chose his status & popularity over the truth. He passionately believed in the miracle, but then disbelieved in the message. Ironically, since the miracle proved the message, he was forced to denounce both.

We learn from this that being the most eloquent and praised "preachers of Islam" can only make you more vulnerable to the "ego" test; his fame, popularity, wealth, status was all at stake for accepting the truth. This example also demonstrates a major function of Code 19, i.e. to bring out our true convictions (see 74:30-31).

In light of this, a new playlist has been created, 'Code 19 Reactions' where we highlight how people react to this miracle. Shabbir Ally, for example, is among the rare few traditionalist scholars who have accepted the many facts linked to the miracle and the clear prophecy in chapter 74.


10 February: The Bee adds to the massive pool of evidence supporting the GOD-alone Shahada.

10 Reasons >

1. Muhammed himself didn’t say this Shahada.

2. No distinction among the messengers 2:285

3. Salat from Abraham 21:73

4. Only hypocrites say Muhammed in Shahada 63:1

5. No Muhammad Shahada in the Quran

6. Sura Muhammed Shahada is God only 47:19

7. Only Shahada in Quran is God only 3:18

8. Grammatically incorrect to say “is a messenger”. Quran says “he was” (33:40).

9. Shahada means to bear witness (see with own eyes). We did not witness Muhammed. We only witnessed God per 7:172.

10. God alone is sufficient as a witness of Muhammed's messengership 4:79.

Additional reasons >

11. The Greatest Criterion: mentioning God Alone (39:45)

12. History corroborates the fact that the shahadatayn was fabricated after Muhammad's death. These are a few excerpts from "Muhammad and the Believers" (2012) by Fred Donner, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern History, University of Chicago:

13. The exact phrase لا إِلَهَ إِلا اللَّهُ appears in the Quran twice. In Sura Muhammad, it is in verse 19 (47:19). It is also mentioned in 37:35. This verse is the 1406th verse from the beginning of the Quran with اللَّهُ mentioned in it. 1406 = 19 x 74 (the number of lunar years after the revelation of the Quran that God revealed His proof for the message of لا إِلَهَ إِلا اللَّهُ ).

14. The phrase مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (Muhammad is God's messenger) appears once, in 48:29. The phrase is a continuation from 48:28. Read between punctuation stops, the statement really is: وَكَفَى بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًامُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (God suffices as a witness - Muhammad is God's messenger).

15. The phrase لا إِلَهَ إِلا اللَّهُ appears as many variants throughout the Quran (more than 30 times). Every single time, it is mentioned standalone without anybody' else name placed next to God's name.


17 February: The Bee, an active member of the server points out how today's "Quranism" movement largely borrows (plagiarizes) its top arguments from the work of Dr. Rashad Khalifa.

The Bee: "It’s no laughing matter. Quranists quote 45:6, 39:23, 31:6, 6:19, 6:114, 12:111, 77:50, 7:185 as primary arguments for following the Quran alone. These are all arguments taken straight from citations of verses in “Quran, Hadith and Islam” or emphasized in footnotes and appendices of his translation. Anyone who claims to follow the Quran alone is putting Rashad Khalifa over the Quran like Sunnis do, because all the arguments for following the Quran alone that Quranists make is plagiarized from the works of Rashad."

Katharsis: "I dropped the hadith because of the Quran without knowing who is Rashad."

The Bee: "The movement started in the 1970s, and the arguments were drawn from his work. Including those who did not meet him directly but heard it from others who did. Unless coincidentally nobody was making this argument for 1400 years and suddenly everyone started independently coming to such a conclusion. Rashad made unique arguments nobody made before. Quranists are plagiarizing from his insight given to him by God. There is no shame in acknowledging this historicity. Just like there is no shame in acknowledging that the Quran came through Muhammed. Even though Muhammed did not author the Quran. Even though the earth already went around the sun for billions of years."

qlabs: "What are the odds that you would have found it on your own with 14 centuries of ignorance on this subject? It’s a miracle to think about. It’s easy to attribute it to yourself, but these arguments stemmed from his work, then propagated independent of himself. We have to go back to where it started. The odds of you coming to these conclusions with zero reference/example, coupled with normalized traditionalist viewpoints, is low no matter how sincere. Just go back 50 years and put yourselves in the shoes of an average person. It's very simplistic to imply "just reading the Quran" could have landed you with these perfect set of beliefs - let's not forget that the internet and mass propagation of these ideas now plays a major role."

QuranTalk additionally cites his recent podcast and article on the matter (Islamic Reformation), pointing out that "There was no modern-day Quranist movement until after Rashad Khalifa wrote Quran Hadith and Islam and the translation of the Quran in 1981. Through his work individuals took the ideas he extracted from the Quran and created the modern Quranist movement we see today." - adding, "It would be interesting to do an analysis of the Quran translations prior to Rashad's translation compared to post Rashad. From the number of Quranist translations that have came out since you can see the impact that Rashad's translation has had on them."


17 February: A member of the server, mhossain, brings up 2:187 and questions the Arabic word "layl" used - does it mean we fast until the night?

Navidfa: The start of night is Sunset. Layl is everything. Maghrib is sunset. Isha is total darkness. But they both fall under "night". Thus, the start of "night" or "layl" is sunset.

mhossan: can you give a example from Quran where Layl means sunset?

Navidfa: It doesn't mean sunset - it means night - but the night starts at sunset.

[17:78] You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.

أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا

[50:39] Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise, and before sunset.

أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا

[20:130] Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.

فَاصْبِرْ عَلَىٰ مَا يَقُولُونَ وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا وَمِنْ آنَاءِ الَّيْلِ فَسَبِّحْ وَأَطْرَافَ النَّهَارِ لَعَلَّكَ تَرْضَىٰ

The first one is layl. The next two are variations of "maghrib". Which means, "the setting".


25 February: Katharsis makes a case for stoning: "it's in the Bible and universally accepted by Jews & Muslims". Several traditionalists also make the claim that it is the punishment for adultery. Navid and many others challenge this position.

QuranTalk: The Qur'an does not mention the act of stoning (Rajm) for any crime. Stoning is called rajm (Arabic: رجم) in Islamic literature, and is a practice found in: Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Northern, Nigeria, Qatar, Iran.

Stoning is in the Quran, but ironically, it is only done by the disbelievers to the believers:

[18:20] "If they discover you, they will stone you, or force you to revert to their religion, then you can never succeed.”

[36:18] They said, "We consider you bad omens. Unless you refrain, we will surely stone you, or afflict you with painful retribution.”

[11:91] They said, "O Shu`aib, we do not comprehend many of the things you are telling us, and we see that you are powerless among us. If it were not for your tribe, we would have stoned you. You have no value for us.”

[26:116] They said, "Unless you refrain, O Noah, you will be stoned.”

[19:46] He said, "Have you forsaken my gods, O Abraham? Unless you stop, I will stone you. Leave me alone.”

Stoning cannot be correct because the Quran tells us the punishment for adultery (only proven with four witnesses), is a hundred lashes.

[24:2] The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.*

Furthermore, the adulterer and adulteress must marry after this, i.e. actually be alive. See 24:3.

There is a Hadith that while the people were preparing the funeral for the prophet, a GOAT came and ate the verses of the Quran having to do with stoning. Ironically, this is not even a case of "abrogation" - this is literally a verse that does not exist. The Quran is complete, perfect, and fully detailed (6:38, 6:114, 7:2-3, 10:37, 12:111, 17:41, 17:89, 18:54, 25:33, 68:37-38), nothing can abrogate it (6:115, 18:27), and Hadith is condemned by name (4:87, 7:185, 12:111, 31:6, 45:6, 39:23, 53:59, 56:81, 68:44, 77:50).


25 February: Discussions over the validity of circumcision between Navidfa, JeffT, and Erdem.

QuranTalk: The claim that circumcision is not mentioned in the Quran is incorrect. Circumcision is represented in the Arabic Quran.

The word Rashad Khalifa translated as Monotheism in the Quran is حَنِيفًا (ḥanīfan). This word is almost exclusively mentioned throughout the Quan in conjunction with Abraham (2:135. 3:67, 3:95. 4:125. 6:161, 16:120, 16:123).

The root of حَنِيفًا (ḥanīfan) is ح ن ف and means to turn away from idol worship but also to be circumcised, in addition to other meanings as well. A comprehensive list of meanings are below for this root.

To lean to one side, incline or decline, turn away from error to guidance, incline to the right religion, stand firmly on one side, leave a false religion and turn to right, act according to the law of Abraham, to be circumcised, turn away from the worship of idols, to perform Hajj; apply or devote oneself to religious services, incline to or have a right state or tendency.

[16:123] Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham (milat-Ibraheem), the monotheist (ḥanīfan); he never was an idol worshiper.

I don’t think is a coincidence, the fact that the word for “monotheism” in Arabic also is understood to mean one who turns away from idol worship, follows the religion of Abraham, performs Hajj, and is circumcised.

Navid: The fact that circumcision is universal and mainstream practice, if it really were a "corrupt" or "satanic" practice, would the Quran not HAVE to address it? - The trinity, for example, is a false idea almost universally accepted by Christians, and so it follows that the Quran directly addresses it.

There are Greek sources from the 5th century that prove circumcision is an ongoing practices all along the Arabian peninsula. Even Hadith, taking it as a historical source, proves that it did exist at the time of Muhammed and was universally accepted. Not only is it accepted by every Muslim school of jurisprudence, but also every other known monotheistic religion. Since the Quran deals only with practices that were distorted, it had to be addressed if wrong.

Universal acceptance only has value when it is not opposed by the Quran, thus the "universal acceptance" of trinity, for example, is irrelevant as invalidated by the verses of the Quran. However, something even more universal, literally affecting billions of boys, while being attributed to God's beloved friend, Abraham is not opposed anywhere in the Quran. This indicates it is a correct and approved practice. It additionally helps that Dr. Rashad Khalifa, whose duty involved 'cleansing' the religion, did not condemn it either, while otherwise opposing more minute things (in comparison) relating to Abraham such as the popular belief that Abraham "killed his son" - calling it a "gross blasphemy" (Appendix 9).

Read > Circumcision and Quran - Where in Quran does it mention circumcision






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